Nov.  3, 2001

President Hosni Mubarak voiced belief that the European Union (EU) should exert utmost efforts and pressure Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon into joining peace negotiations with the Palestinians and establish the Palestinian state.

    In an interview with Spanish "El Pais" newspaper of Thursday, President Mubarak warned against leaving matters as they are between the Palestinians and the Israelis, saying it is very dangerous to do so.

    Sharon's aggressive policy will never lead to realizing security for Israel, he said, pointing out that ever since Sharon assumed office, he only encourages destruction, massacres and violence everywhere.

    Following is the interview given by the President to "El Pais" correspondent in Cairo, published Thursday:
El Pais: Ever since September 11, you have been warning the United States that no peace would be realized without the establishment of a Palestinian state.

    Do you have any plans or specific suggestion on reviving the peace process in the Middle East?

    Mubarak: The peace process will not realize progress without real efforts by the United States and the EU. The Americans, just like the Europeans, are really keen not to leave matters as they are because they will deteriorate much further until Israel itself will be in danger.

    Peace alone will bring stability to the Middle East. Peace will never be realized until a just solution to the Palestinian issue is reached. We support the establishment of the independent Palestinian state because this is the best guarantee for Israel's security.

    We also support Israel's right to be part of this world inside its borders. We cannot leave the problem going on because it will turn into a catastrophe for everyone. The Europeans and Americans should realize that leaving matters as they are is very dangerous.

    El Pais: Do you have hope that the peace process would come out of its crisis with the presence of the current Israeli government of Ariel Sharon ?

    Mubarak : If Sharon wanted peace he would have sought to realize it. However, I do not see that Sharon has a strategy to this effect. Ever since he has held office he has done nothing other than destruction, bloodshed, massacres and violence everywhere . Today innocent people die from both the Palestinian and Israeli sides. Sharon should have realized that his policy would never realise security for Israel.

    El Pais: The Egyptian press call you "Pioneer" in fighting extremist Islamic terrorism which masterminded the September 11 events and'' Egypt has been fighting such groups for 20 years; since the assassination of late President Anwar Sadat, What have you learned from the experience ?

    Mubarak : These groups have committed crimes in Egypt. Some of them fled to Europe seeking political asylum and media limelight.

    We thought, based on experience and police investigations, that such a group could spread everywhere and that was why I called in 1984 for holding an international conference on terrorism.

    I said there is no country too far for such terrorists and, nevertheless, many countries did not believe such view in the first place. They said "no, no", such problem will not touch on us because it's Egypt's problem. Terrorism occurs in Egypt due to unemployment and poverty, but I say that poverty is everywhere in the world including the United States, the richest country in the world.

    I have seen children eating from garbage cans in Western countries. I'd like to say something here. In Egypt no one goes to bed with an empty stomach.

    The Egyptian people might not be rich, but food is there for everyone. Such kind of terrorism is not due to poverty, as many of those who commit such crimes are wealthy.

    El-Pais: Before September 11, countries such as the United Kingdom, refused to hand over to Egypt extremist Islamists who sought asylum because of swift measures including penalties court martials and execution penalties What is your comment?

    Mubarak : Oh, were you protecting the human rights of criminals and totally overlooking the human rights of their innocent victims? This country is governed under the rule of law and we have democracy and freedom of the press. Abroad, they speak about the Egyptian official press but we do not have official press in Egypt.

    They call A1 Ahram, A1 Akhbar, A1 Gomhuria official newspapers, but we do not have any power over them. These papers criticize the government daily and all people write in them including communists, fanatics and extremists.

    El Pais: Back to the international conference on terrorism that you suggest. What are its specific aims?

    Mubarak: We have to ratify an international agreement on combatting terrorism the terrorist, groups should be put on trial swiftly, their funding channels should be blocked and every country in the world, big or small, should implement the agreement to be reached by the conference. Otherwise, the danger will be greater.

    El-Pais: What are the roots and reasons behind Islamic terrorism from which Egypt had suffered and the United States had suffered on September 11, if poverty and lack of freedom are not the reasons ?

    Mubarak: Such extremists wish to control countries with their concepts and ideas while making use of democracy. There is not a single terrorist in dictatorships as they disappear immediately, while flourish in light of democracy, freedom of the press and rule of law.

    They are sent to courts and their cases are postponed for a year, two or may be three and throughout this period they resume their assassinations. Such groups live in Spain, France and the United States and want to control everything.

    They practise ideological terrorism linked with wrong ideas that have nothing to do with poverty or absence of freedom of expression.

    El-Pais: Groups such as that of Osama Bin Laden, try to gain legitimacy and popular support out of the Palestinian problem, while they appeared after the emergence of such problem. What is your comment ?

    Mubarak: Yes, the Palestinian issue is one of terrorism sources. People get furious when they see massacres against Palestinian children on TV everyday.

    This creates a complicated problem. Another very important issue for Muslims is the sacred places in Jerusalem.

    Muslims might fight for it for hundreds of years. In the Arab-Islamic world, no one would accept leaving the sacred places in Jerusalem under Israeli sovereignty.

    This is the feeling of the public opinion in our country. It is a good feeling.

    El Pais : The Americans have been shelling Afghanistan for three and a half weeks and in Europe and even in the United States itself, a real concern is starting to rise, let alone the Islamic world, as the shelling kills civilians by mistake and destroy hospitals and there is no sign of a quick end to the arresting of Bin Laden.

    Do you believe that the air force is the best way to combat terrorism?

    Mubarak: You should ask this question to the United States because I do not know their plans. The American are furious and the more the shelling operations are the more mistakes are made. We object to the killing of innocent civilians and we have discussed this matter with President Bush. He said they are doing their best to avoid the killing of innocent people.

    El Pais: Out of Egypt's experience, many Egyptians say the best way to combat terrorism is to use the police, the intelligence and ground forces if necessary. What is your comment?

    Mubarak: This depends on the type of terrorism and the land.' I have never been to Afghanistan and I cannot say what should be' done. The Americans have data and pictures and the Britons who had been in Afghanistan know the psychology of this country and can offer the best advice.

    El Pais: You will spend a couple of days in Spain, and' undoubtedly, you have thought about the role of EU in the current international crisis. Don't you think that the Europeans should be more active regarding the Palestinian issue?

    Mubarak: Europe is very close to the Middle East and is strongly affected by everything that goes on here. The EU, in cooperation with the United States, should exert utmost efforts to persuade the Israeli government to join negotiations to reach a final agreement. What the Israeli government is doing now with the Palestinians creates a new generation of terrorists who will be very hard to contain.

    El Pais: What is the strong message the EU could address to Sharon in order to accept to sit at the table of negotiations on the establishment of the Palestinian state?

    Mubarak: The EU should use special ways to bring the issue back on track using warnings, pressures and all other available means. Such matter is better understood by the Europeans. However, they should closely cooperate with the United States.