March 7, 2002

Mubarak to PBS: Egypt supports Saudi overture

The Egyptian leader elaborated that the initiative is based on the “land-for-peace” principle, and the full pullout from all the occupied territories. Then comes the normalization of relations.

The President said: “I think that all the Arab countries realize this and we will probe the issue during the upcoming Arab summit.”

In an interview to American PBS network by the famous Charlie Rose, Mubarak said that Egypt acts in cooperation with K.S.A., welcomes its initiative and any other one that can achieve progress in relation to the position in the Middle East.

Asked whether Egypt will support the U.S.A. when it starts to strike Iraq again, Mubarak answered that “We should not jump over to conclusions. I think the U.S.A. has to perform more consultations with the countries in the region about Iraq, as it had done before the Gulf War, which led to the success of Kuwait liberation operation.”

He added that he believed that such procedure should be followed prior to taking any action against Iraq. “I’ll tell President Bush that we need more time to think it over and consult each other,” he said.

Here is the full text of that interview:

Q: Late President Sadat had floated peace initiative by going to Jerusalem and got peace for land. Now, there’s another initiative by Saudi Crown Prince based also on “peace-for-land” principle and full normalization between Arabs and Israel, do you support that initiative?

Mubarak: I can tell you that namely in 1996 an Arab summit was held in Egypt. Netanyahu was then the prime minister of Israel. One resolution issued by that summit was “that peace constitutes a strategic target for us as Arabs.” We unanimously approved that principle.

We all approve (by 100 per cent) the formula of “land-for-peace” with complete withdrawal from the territories occupied in 1967. Hence, I can tell you that we back that initiative. Such overture can be implemented. When practically implemented, it will result in normalization of relations with Israel.

Apart from the differences that arise here or there, we already have diplomatic relations with Israel. We contact each other like any two countries. But when reaching a comprehensive settlement, the matter will inevitably be better. Perhaps it’s the first time Saudis talk about being willing to normalize relations with Israel. Yes, it is the first time.

Q: For the first time land for peace…full normalization on the side of all the Arab states, not the diplomatic ties only…not only peace, but complete normalization?

Mubarak: I think all Arab countries are aware of this. We’ll discuss the matter in the next summit.

Q: In Beirut, on 27th of this March?

Mubarak: I can’t speculate. I’m not authorized to speak in the name of all the countries…but all of them realize this and know that when Sadat went there, he could normalize the relations, not only diplomatic relations, this will certainly lead to normalization of relations…no doubt about that.

Q: Is the Saudi Crown Prince going to float that plan or initiative during the Beirut summit?

Mubarak: I think he will.

Q: Are you going to support it without any conditions?

Mubarak: Which conditions do you mean?

Q: Any kind of conditions.

Mubarak: No conditions. These are very good principles if carried out on the basis of land-for-peace formula…the pullout from all occupied lands, then the normalization of relations.

Q: The word normalization means “diplomatic, and all other kinds of relations; cultural, commercial and everything emerging from the word normalization.”

Mubarak: I think so.

Q: Do you believe Sharon will accept the Saudi initiative?

Mubarak: This depends on the thoughts that run in his mind. But I think it’s a unique chance they have to accept for the sake of peace and stability and for the sake of the civilians in Israel as well as in Palestine. I believe that accepting such proposal constitutes great significance to the prosperity of both peoples.

Q: Over the past 18 months the two sides seemed as if they reached the point of despair and endless violence. Did that help to emphasize the fact that something has to be done now, therefore Saudi C.P. came to declare that plan which might be said that it had been submitted before?

Mubarak: Yes ! Something has to be done. It is a must. I once phoned President Bush when the situation turned extremely complicated. I said that something has to be done and as soon as possible. I wish to bring both parties to sit together at the negotiation table. We do not impose anything on anybody in this concern.

Then, I called Sharon to come Sharm el-Shiekh as I was staying there. I wanted to invite President Arafat also to attend, not for solving the difficult problem, but at least to provide appropriate climate before the Arab world and the whole world at large, by having both parties sit together, the matter which might revive hopes anew.

Q: What did Sharon say?

Mubarak: He said he wishes to sit with me alone. I told him that there’s no problem with him. We’ve restored our lands. The problem is with Palestinians. The problem lies in the instability that prevails in this part of the world.

Q: Sharon said he will meet with the Saudi C.P. any time anywhere openly or secretly in any way…would they meet and talk?

Mubarak: This relies on the Saudis themselves. Sharon asked me to try to arrange a secret meeting with Prince Abdullah anywhere to make clear the points included in his initiative. Anyway, I told Sharon that I would convey his message to Saudis, despite the fact that it is quite difficult for them to do this at the time being.

Q: Does your own plan or notion about peace, differ from that suggested by Saudi C.P.?

Mubarak: What sort of difference do you mean? Let’s be squarely frank.

Q: Is there a plan by Mubarak that differs from that by Prince Abdullah?

Mubarak: I don’t think there’s a different plan.

Q: Then, what do you say to Sharon now concerning that plan? What would the Israelis gain from such initiative? What would you like to say, in the same way the message addressed by Saudi C.P., to the Israeli people in which he said “We would like to say to Israelis that we do not hate you and we do not want to throw you into the sea…we wish to live in peace.”?

Mubarak: “Hate you and throw you into the sea” such are very obsolete slogans; we forgot them long ago. I just want to tell Sharon that there’s a golden opportunity to achieve peace for your people and for the peoples of the entire region. I think all will help in this direction; starting by the U.S.A. and ending by most of the Arab countries.

Q: Why can’t Arafat stop violence?

Mubarak: Oh! You are asking a very important question. I do not want to accuse this or that. Violence leads to violence. But the Israelis practiced violence, using tanks, bombers and helicopters.

Q: But someone has to stop all this.

Mubarak: It’s difficult for anyone inside Palestine to stop all this. The frustrated Palestinian citizen lives with his family in a village and is unable to send his kids to school in the neighboring village, and is unable to send a sick family member to hospital in the next town, and possessing no money to feed or clothe his children. Such citizens reached the point of despair that drove them to blow themselves up, like that girl, who got her education in an American university, but was so totally haunted by hopelessness due to what she daily sees going around her that she burst herself apart.

Q: Do you think Sharon will allow Arafat to go to Beirut?

Mubarak: Israelis lose and Sharon loses when he insists on Arafat’s confinement. Public opinion condemns Israelis for this. Meantime, Arafat wins and his popularity surges up as a detained leader.

Q: Do you think Arafat wish to sign an agreement with the Israelis?

Mubarak: Why not?!

Q: Why didn’t he do it before?

Mubarak: When?

Q: With Barak.

Mubarak: The fact we all know, is that the proposal offered by Barak, who is a close friend of mine, involved several difficult points especially those concerning the holy sites. Arafat can never accept the holy sites under Israeli sovereignty.

Q: Will Egypt support the U.S.A. again in a war against Iraq?

Mubarak: Let’s not jump over to conclusions. I think the U.S.A. has to perform more consultations with the states in the region, in the same way she did before the Gulf war; which led to the success of the Kuwait liberation operation. I think such procedure has to be followed before starting any action against Iraq. I’ll tell President Bush that we need more concentration and more consultation.

Q: Is there some rivaling between Saudi Arabia and Egypt for seeking domination?

Mubarak: No.

Q: In the Arab world you want to be no. one?

Mubarak: Charlie… Charlie…you create problems.

Q: In Saudi Arabia they…

Mubarak: (Interrupting) We act in cooperation with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and others. We do not see ourselves as no. one or no. two or no. three.

Q: But the Saudis pulled the carpet from under the feet of the Egyptians. With their overture, they attempt to get Sharon and Arafat together. You’ve tried to get both together?

Mubarak: I was bent to get the two men together even before that initiative.

Q: But it did not happen? Mubarak: No. It didn’t. If the Saudi initiative could stir the situation more promptly, and succeeded in holding a meeting between the two sides I will clap my hands for it and for any other one that can achieve this.

Q: Is normalization a good thing for all?

Mubarak: Yes. Surely.

Q: The U.S.A. is talking now about expanding the war circle against terrorism so as to include states and regimes seeking mass destruction weapons…is it a nice idea?

Mubarak: We stand against the mass destruction weapons being in the hands of many countries in the world. That’ll be destructive for all. But if you mean the Iraqi leader, I can tell you that we are against using force to solve problems anywhere in the world.

Q: What do you hope to get as a result of meeting President Bush?

Mubarak: I’ll sit with him and place some points before him as I feel he doesn’t have the full image, because we live in the region and have better vision.

Q: What will you expose before the U.S. President?

Mubarak: As a friend to the U.S.A. there should be contacts between the American President and me. I’ll sincerely tell him what should be done concerning the ME problem. At the same time, I’ll affirm our support to terror combat.

Q: American citizens wonder why there is a big number of Egyptians and Saudis involved into terrorist attacks, what would you tell them?

Mubarak: I’ll not speak about Saudi Arabia. The authorities there can do it. I say that in every country there are some militants…in every country in the world, even in the U.S.A. itself. But we are in war with terrorism since 1990. We call for holding international conference on terrorism, as it is a world phenomenon. Yet, despite the existence of some extremists in Egypt, our country is much safer than several other countries. The case now is under control via sovereignty of law.

Some of those who stood for trial fled towards Afghanistan and other European states and got asylum there. But, we don’t have that sort of extremists at the time being.